Got to Jax's and there were only 4 players including Jax. Just too many tournaments I guess. Anyway, upbeat as usual, Jax says let go to KL grand prix, my treat! Never turning down a good offer we all went. And boy, what a tournament! Strong players galore and excellent practice even if it was 45 mins dead time. Both Firey Rook and Gilachess covers the event so please go there for the blow by blow.
There were many notable achievements during the 2 days but one stood out for me. Maybe because I'm his dad. :) In the 2nd round Mark was playing with Jason Lim and losing. Jason's phone rang and the arbiter came to forfeit his game. Mark told the arbiter, Marcus Yeoh that he did not want to claim the win as was his prerogative. I wasn't there but when I heard, I couldnt have felt prouder of him.
Sportsmanship and gentlemanly behaviour. I love this game for what it has taught my son.
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Good sportmanship act by your son....i will be proud also if my son did such thing.
ReplyDeleteI dont think it is the pregorative of the player, it should be the arbiter. It is wrong to allow the player to decide, unless it is announced by the arbiter before the tournament starts. Otherwise just follow FIDE rules. BTW, it has nothing to do with sportsmanship, rules are rules.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the clarification. There was an announcement that hand phones should be off but I don't think it was explicitly said that the game is forfeited if the phone rings. I agree rules are rules but is there some latitude in the above circumstance?
ReplyDeleteArbiter Najib told us that if handphone wring, automatically lose. If opponent say it's ok. Still lose because otherwise it will be no fair if other case of handphone ring is allowed without losing. It should be arbiter to decide not player.
ReplyDeleteKL arbiter is new and inexperienced.
Thank you. As far as I know, arbiters have near God like powers. So arbiter Najib is right in his tournament and arbiter Marcus is right in his. I felt Marcus was right to allow Mark not to claim his win unless it is specifically stated in Fide rules that a player automatically loses when his handphone rings and I don't think that rule is there.
ReplyDeleteI no agree.
ReplyDeleteFor example Ponomariov lost his game when phone ring. Immediately! Arbiter no go around ask Pono opponent "want win or not?". That is too silly if happen. Pono lost immediately. No question ask.
Marcus the arbiter force the Singh in last Grand Pre to lose immediate when phone wring. Even before first move made. He no ask his opponent want win or not. Singh lose immediate. No question ask. So why in another game he listen to player want claim win or not when phone wring? That is very not consisten.
One more thing is phone ring not affect opponent directly only. But affect people surrounding playing also. It is disturb them too. Not fair for just one person player to decide want claim win or not. Arbiter must be consisten and inforce rule of chess the same in all tournament. Arbiter is not God and must follow rule of chess. Local arbiter still got lots of things to learn.
I am surprised of such a ruling. I agree with Jimmy that the arbiter be the one making the decision not the player. Even more surprising as Peter Long would also have awarded automatic loss in this case.
ReplyDeleteHandphone rings, Zero point to the player. No question asked is practiced by FIDE Sec-General Ignatius Leong. He wrote the FIDE Lawes of Chess. So, any other arbiter who practice otherwise is hitting under the belt.
ReplyDeleteThe same rule is practiced by IA Hamid and IA Lim in Msia.
ReplyDeleteIm M'sia, there is less than 5 "no nonsense" Arbiters. IA Hamid, IA Lim, FA Long ......
ReplyDeleteActually, Yeoh is also in my list but after KL Grand Prix, have to remove him as well. You can forget about other arbiters until they can prove themselves consistently over years of arbitership.
Najib is the next one who deserve to enter into my list if he can continues his consistency over the next 2 to 3 years.
ReplyDeleteA quote I read from Jimmy's blog, "You pay peanut to get monkey".
ReplyDeleteChess organisers who want to ensure their event to run smoothly without controversial issues should go for "no nonsense" arbiter. This is why they command higher fee than the rests.
It is liken to why top notch surgeon costs many times more than "just out of school" doctor who perform the same operation. Yet people still pay them to perform their operation. Quality is assured.
Please give Marcus a break. He arbitered the KL Grand Prix professionally and his decision to allow the game to go on after the phone ring is a small matter.
ReplyDeleteThank you everyone for taking the time to comment. This is an interesting controversy and I would like to check up and confirm the rules. My understanding at the moment is that the arbiter has discretion in this case unless it was announced at the beginning of the tournament, if I remember correctly from the Fide handbook. Maybe why this point is so hotly debated is because few has ever forfeited a win before. I will come back on this.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Why dispute this after the fact? The players had no problem with it. Why outsiders are now making such a big fuss over this?
ReplyDeleteJust like football, once the referee rules, that's the final word. All other protests after the game is just nonsense.
No. It is precisely this sort of Malaysian mentality that makes us stay backwards. If there is a serious mistake made in arbitering, let not the mistake be repeated again. Learn from it for heaven sake!
ReplyDeleteYes, i totally agree. They just wont learned from mistakes.
ReplyDeleteIf u said hp rings is in Fide, y local tournaments didn't implement zero start rules by the local arbiter or so called IA or FA? Anon, please check the facts first before u jump into any conclusion.. Please ask Marcus face to face on his charges on the grand prix. He did for the love of the game.. He travel from Pg to KL just to run the event.. U guys are selfish & only knows how to criticize those who sacrifice their time..!
ReplyDeleteIn FIDE rule book there are provisions for the zero start rule to extend it to one hour waiting time on discretion of the arbiter and announced at the beginning of the tournament. This effectively makes the zero start rule an option with some leeway. Things are different for the phone ringing cases.
ReplyDeleteI assume there was announcements that forfeiture of the game by phone ringing was made. It's the arbiter's discretion to enforce or not enforce this. That is why many have the opinion that the arbiter's decision in this is not consistent. But once the announcement is made there should be no exception. If there is, again an pre-announcement is expected.
In the following case, perhaps Marcus Yeoh's feedback would have been helpful but he has not responded either based on ignorance of this blog post or for some other reason.
Latest rule on Zero Start:-
ReplyDelete6.7 Any player who arrives at the chessboard after the start of the session shall lose the game, unless the arbiter decides otherwise. Thus the default time is 0 minutes. The rules of a competition may specify a different default time.
That is why the arbiter can set the default time to 60 minutes thus negating the zero start rule.
Here is the latest FIDE rule on mobile phones:-
12.3 b. Without the permission of the arbiter a player is forbidden to have a mobile phone or other electronic means of communication in the playing venue, unless they are completely switched off. If any such device produces a sound, the player shall lose the game. The opponent shall win. However, if the opponent cannot win the game by any series of legal moves, his score shall be a draw.
There is no mention of whether the arbiter can let the game go on and ignore the phone ring based on the opponent's perogative.
Dont need to defend your self. even the FIDE ruled stated.
ReplyDeleteRaymond have you forgotten to "come back on this"?
ReplyDelete